"Mostly what I'm seeing is a sick man surrounding himself with sick people to enforce his warped ideas. When I say sick of course, I mean mentally sick and likely diagnosable. It seems most...if not all .......these people were either abused or neglected...or both....as children. Hence the fascination with power.....power they were deprived of as children. Many children who were abused when young grow up to be abusers. Doesn't make sense to me but so many psychologists and psychiatrists tell us this is the case. Prison guards and counselors can vouch that the worst of the worst were abused/neglected as children. But yet we put these sick people in positions of power and hire them to police our streets and our children. IMO this is the root cause of so much of America's problems. It doesn't take a majority of people to be 'sick' like this. Just a few in the right places and they will recruit others like themselves so that before we understand what's happening we've lost our country."
Followed by this from Sabrina:
agreed, but how to assess for childhood trauma? my personal experience suggests 95% of children are 'abused' in one way or another.
To which I replied
I don't think there's been enough research or if there has, its not been made readily available. My guess is that it matters to what degree and kind of abuse. It seems the worst of it has to do with how powerless the young child believes he is....and whether there are outlets....e.g. Is it both parents? Is the mother as powerless as the child? How depraved is the abuse? There are many more facets to it. And of course the child grows up ashamed of it as though its their own fault. And of course as an adult this shame will be hidden or make every attempt to.
Ultimately I think it boils down to the lack of power and lack of empathy. Chris Armitage wrote an entire newsletter about his experience as a prison guard. All the abusers ...murderers rapists cheered on Trump. That has to say something right there..... They know a fellow abused child (grown up) when they see one.
The expansion from Dark Triad to Dark Tetrad by adding sadism is realy crucial for understanding these personalities. Sadism fundamentaly changes the calculus because it's not just about lacking empathy or manipulating for personal gain, it's about actively deriving pleasure from causing harm. I've noticed that discussions about these traits tend to treat them as interchangeable, but that fourth element of enjoying others' suffering adds a whole different dimension to the damage someone can inflict.
I certainly agree with you on this. I hope this concept and classification gets traction beyond just a few articles and Substacks. I wish there was a way to get Lawrence O'Donnell to have an expert on explaining it.
I can't and won't say they all fit into this combination of four traits. Some fit into the Dark Triad though, and they aren't sadists.
*Narcissism is characterized by grandiosity, pride, egotism, and a lack of empathy.
*Machiavellianism is characterized by manipulativeness, indifference to morality, lack of empathy, and a calculated focus on self-interest.
*Psychopathy is characterized by continuous antisocial behavior, impulsivity, selfishness, callous and unemotional traits, and remorselessness. It is considered the most malevolent of the Dark Triad.
Some also meet the criteria for being malignant narcissism which by now all readers of this and other similar works are familiar with.
Others just are easily led and gullible people. here are many people who lack critical thinking skills and get all their information from right wing media and propaganda. Some are like cult members who for various psychological reasons succumb to a leader like Trump. Some are truly hateful bigots.
Great stuff, Hal, as usual. But I wonder: Is there some kind of narcissistic hierarchy that allows any of them to want to serve anyone else? For example, why would Miller want to serve Trump? Wouldn't he just prefer to kill him and grab power for himself? Or is there something imposing a psychological limit to each actor's ruthlessness, like honor among thieves or fear of the actor in charge as someone more ruthless?
I wrote this on Sabrina's SubStack earlier today.
"Mostly what I'm seeing is a sick man surrounding himself with sick people to enforce his warped ideas. When I say sick of course, I mean mentally sick and likely diagnosable. It seems most...if not all .......these people were either abused or neglected...or both....as children. Hence the fascination with power.....power they were deprived of as children. Many children who were abused when young grow up to be abusers. Doesn't make sense to me but so many psychologists and psychiatrists tell us this is the case. Prison guards and counselors can vouch that the worst of the worst were abused/neglected as children. But yet we put these sick people in positions of power and hire them to police our streets and our children. IMO this is the root cause of so much of America's problems. It doesn't take a majority of people to be 'sick' like this. Just a few in the right places and they will recruit others like themselves so that before we understand what's happening we've lost our country."
Followed by this from Sabrina:
agreed, but how to assess for childhood trauma? my personal experience suggests 95% of children are 'abused' in one way or another.
To which I replied
I don't think there's been enough research or if there has, its not been made readily available. My guess is that it matters to what degree and kind of abuse. It seems the worst of it has to do with how powerless the young child believes he is....and whether there are outlets....e.g. Is it both parents? Is the mother as powerless as the child? How depraved is the abuse? There are many more facets to it. And of course the child grows up ashamed of it as though its their own fault. And of course as an adult this shame will be hidden or make every attempt to.
Ultimately I think it boils down to the lack of power and lack of empathy. Chris Armitage wrote an entire newsletter about his experience as a prison guard. All the abusers ...murderers rapists cheered on Trump. That has to say something right there..... They know a fellow abused child (grown up) when they see one.
https://cmarmitage.substack.com/p/conservatism-americas-empathy-disorder-258?
https://cmarmitage.substack.com/p/grand-old-pedophiles?
Might abuse and neglect tie together all the things you list ?
Very well put. Thank you for reporting it here.
Very well put. Thank you for sharing it here.
The expansion from Dark Triad to Dark Tetrad by adding sadism is realy crucial for understanding these personalities. Sadism fundamentaly changes the calculus because it's not just about lacking empathy or manipulating for personal gain, it's about actively deriving pleasure from causing harm. I've noticed that discussions about these traits tend to treat them as interchangeable, but that fourth element of enjoying others' suffering adds a whole different dimension to the damage someone can inflict.
I certainly agree with you on this. I hope this concept and classification gets traction beyond just a few articles and Substacks. I wish there was a way to get Lawrence O'Donnell to have an expert on explaining it.
I can't say all of MAGA are in the Tetrad, but I'd wager it's a substantial fraction. Who knew? How did they end up that way? Upbringing? Genetics? 🤔
I can't and won't say they all fit into this combination of four traits. Some fit into the Dark Triad though, and they aren't sadists.
*Narcissism is characterized by grandiosity, pride, egotism, and a lack of empathy.
*Machiavellianism is characterized by manipulativeness, indifference to morality, lack of empathy, and a calculated focus on self-interest.
*Psychopathy is characterized by continuous antisocial behavior, impulsivity, selfishness, callous and unemotional traits, and remorselessness. It is considered the most malevolent of the Dark Triad.
Read more about the Dark Triad here >>> https://www.halbrown.org/2024/12/trumps-soulless-cruelty-it-point-and.html
Some also meet the criteria for being malignant narcissism which by now all readers of this and other similar works are familiar with.
Others just are easily led and gullible people. here are many people who lack critical thinking skills and get all their information from right wing media and propaganda. Some are like cult members who for various psychological reasons succumb to a leader like Trump. Some are truly hateful bigots.
I’m glad I am normal!!
Normal clincially, but not average.
Great stuff, Hal, as usual. But I wonder: Is there some kind of narcissistic hierarchy that allows any of them to want to serve anyone else? For example, why would Miller want to serve Trump? Wouldn't he just prefer to kill him and grab power for himself? Or is there something imposing a psychological limit to each actor's ruthlessness, like honor among thieves or fear of the actor in charge as someone more ruthless?
Reposted “Sadism R US”. That’s the word sticking in my mind.